See Loren’s bio, photo, and Part 1 of this Q&A.

Q&A with Loren Niemi (Question 2):

Q: How important is it to you and your work to function within the framework of a particular definition of “story?” (i.e., What is a story?) What definition do you espouse?

A: My fundamental definition of story is that it is the conscious expression of experience and imagination in a narrative form. The word “conscious” is critical and speaks to the idea that a story is chosen and shaped. This definition is intentionally very broad, with narrative forms including a wide variety of expressions — oral, written, visual, ritual, political, etc. On one end of the spectrum, it includes the common daily act of recounting our experience over the dinner table or around the water cooler and on the other end, it includes the whole of culture, historical, political, religious narratives, the myths we live by, etc. I believe that story is fundamental to our being human — the organizing principle that allows us to order the world and transfer knowledge from one individual, culture and generation to another. On a practical level, all the work I do is storytelling and the core of that work is to make the stories we tell conscious, chosen, artful, meaningful.

I’m thrilled to present the sixth installment in this series of interviews with some of the gurus of both performance and applied storytelling. This interview is with Loren Niemi, whose work I first encountered while working on my dissertation. Read more about him below. I have broken his interview down into five parts, with one to appear each of the next five days.

Bio: Loren Niemi has spent 30 years as a storyteller, theatrical performer, and director of other performers. He is also a public policy consultant and trainer working with low-wealth communities and non-profit organizations to identify, frame and tell their critical stories.

Loren is the author of The Book of Plots (Llumina Press) on the use of narrative forms and Inviting the Wolf In: Thinking About Difficult Stories (August House Publishers) with co-author Elizabeth Ellis, on the value and necessity of the stories that are hard to hear and harder to tell. He teaches Storytelling in the Communications Department of Metro State University and offers consulting services and workshops on storytelling and cultural competency for organizations, businesses and communities around the world.

For more information, contact him at 651-271-6349, niemistory@aol.com or visit his website.

Q&A with Loren Niemi (Question 1):

Q: How did you initially become involved with story/storytelling/narrative? What attracted you to this field? What do you love about it?

A: There are several answers to this question, each of which responds to a corresponding level of awareness and commitment to storytelling.

The first came early, first grade, when the teacher asked what we knew about elephants. I gave an enthusiastic answer mixing fact and imagination. She said, you’re a liar. I said, no, I’m telling a story. While I was aware of the difference she did not acknowledge or “reward” the story, but shamed me with the result being that I did not raise my hand or speak unless called upon for the rest of the school year. This moment has remained with me for over 50 years and is core to my understanding that storytelling is fundamental to our education (integrating right and left-brain functions) and that everyone tells stories, consciously and unconsciously, to place themselves in the world, to build relationships and recognized for who they are as they choose to name/claim their identity.

By high school, that deep seated impulse to mix fact and imagination to make sense of the world lead me to the school paper and an award for creative fiction. It also got me my first kiss from an attractive woman when I told a wholly imagined story at a summer school leadership camp. These reaffirmed my sense of story as a powerful and rewarding use of language. There were also early lessons in these about the value and necessity of crafting material for a specific audience — matching language,
tone, rhythm to invite the listener into the story.

In 1971, I was working at an alternative education program for juvenile justice offenders. More than once I sat in a courtroom and heard a judge say to a kid, you can go to jail, into the military or into this program and have a kid think that it was the easy choice. We worked with them 12 hours a day, six days a week – and the core of the work was having them tell their stories over and over again in response to questions that were designed to move them from seeing themselves as victims of bad luck or other people’s ill will to taking responsibility for their own lives and decisions. It was a long and emotionally difficult process with more than one kid choosing to go into the military rather than stay with the program. Today it would probably be seen as a kind of Narrative Therapy, but then it was rooted in Gestalt and a Baba Ram Das sense of “Be Here Now.” In support of the work I began collecting and telling little metaphors, fables and parables (many from the Sufi, Zen and Hassidic traditions) to provide indirect models of behaviors, values, ways of thinking that supported the change process.

In 1978, I was managing projects the City of Minneapolis Arts Commission and was sitting in the bar of the Edgewater Hotel in Madison, WI, between arts conference sessions when I was asked what was it that I actually did. I’m a storyteller, I said. I help organizations and communities identify, shape and tell their stories. Once the words were out of my mouth, I understood that this was exactly what I did and more importantly, it was what I wanted to do. Story was the frame that made sense of the organizing, educational, political and arts streams that were all present in my life. Story was the common bond and conduit between them. Once the words were out of my mouth I could see how I had been prepared to be a storyteller and after, the doors of opportunity opened to demonstrate that this was my life’s work.

Within the next two years, I would meet and work with Ken Feit, Jay O’Callahan, Goyia Timpenelli, Mike Cotter, Elizabeth Ellis, Jim May and other leaders of the storytelling revival. Within three years I would be the Humanities Scholar in Residence in Northern Minnesota, paid to spend a year collecting and telling stories and documenting the cultural shift from an industrial to a tourism and service based economy. Within five years I would become the ringmaster and tour manager of the Circle of Water Circus, and there would be no turning back.

What a delight to present the fifth installment of my Q&A series with story practitioners. I have not actually met Svend-Erik Engh face to face, but have been in the same room with him during the Smithsonian Storytelling Weekends.

 Svend-Erik Engh is a noted Danish performing artist and experienced workshop leader. Born in Copenhagen in 1957, he started his career as a teacher at the Borups School for adults from 1993-1999. He tells stories professionally
— likes to tell under the branches of a copper beech in Kings Garden — and he teaches storytelling and organizes seminars, workshops and other events. He has been teaching storytelling for 20 years in universities, high schools and in business. He teaches at the Copenhagen Business School and at the University of Gotland. Showing that art and business can benefit from each other, he has conducted innovative workshops with organizations and companies throughout Scandinavia. Read his blog. He is the coordinator of the annual Golden Fleece Group’s Storytelling in Organizations Conference at the Copenhagen Business School, Denmark, which began in October 2007 and is an annual event (see below). You can learn more about Svend-Erik in Steve Denning’s interview with him, and if you read Danish, you can learn about him on his Web site. Svend-Erik’s most significant upcoming project is the Golden Fleece Copenhagen 2008, called StoryAtWork.dk, October 1-2, 2008, with Steve Denning, Madelyn Blair, Heather Forest, Mary Alice Arthur, Svend-Erik Engh, Mille Matjeka, and Marika Kajo. Download video. Svend-Erik is also the author of a fine little 145-page book, Tell a Story: Be Heard, Be Understood, Create Interaction, which can be ordered here. He offers a 9-page handout on being a better storyteller for download. Svend-Erik lives north of Copenhagen with his wife and three children. 

Svend-Erik Engh Q&A:

Q: In an interview with Steve Denning, you talk about having been a storyteller before 2000, then having a “wonderful experience” presenting to a group of organizational psychologists, and then becoming more and more involved in the “world of organizations.” Why do you think you were attracted to working with organizations? What was it about organizational work that drew you in?

A: I didn’t ask organisations — they asked me. I was invited by a lot of people to do presentations, workshops etc. And slowly I realized it was great fun. Especially when I kept focus on my role as an artist, and didn´t think I was a consultant.

It was so easy. I just did, what I have done for the past 10 years: Told people stories and learned them how to tell stories. I told my stories to show them how it could be done, to inspire. Then I gave them exercises like I had giving exercises to my students. Same exercises, same results: Stories gives energy, brings people together and it is great fun.

So now I am working for companies and as long I keep focus, it works for me. I inspire them to see their communication in another way — just the basic fact that I am telling a story without PowerPoint or other written material is fantastic for them.

Q: In the same interview, you mention an ability to to see many possibilities for a company within a few seconds of hearing its story. Can you give an example?

A: When I hear a story from a company I get much more information than the usual information overkill.

Right now I am working with MCI, a container manufacturing company, and in 2001 a group of inspectors from the company discovered that there was a problem with approximately 34,000 containers around the world.

When they discovered that, they immediately gathered the employees together and told them about the extra work, send out a bulletin to all shareholders, started the reparation work and in three years they managed to fix the problem with no great annoyance of the harbour labours.

That story told with a lot of pride tells me more about that company than 20 pages introduction material I received, a video bragging about the virtues of the company, etc.

Q: What people or entities have been most influential to you in your story work and why?

A: Steve Denning and the group of people involved in Golden Fleece, Washington, D.C., combined with the work here in Scandinavia with The Storytelling Academy because of the unique combination. The Washington scene was in the beginning very much a group of former World Bank people combined with a group of actors and storytellers. So they knew a lot about the work in organisations. And my work with The Storytelling Academy was only concentrated on the storytelling issue. So I combined a research in organisational storytelling with the research of purely entertaining/educational storytelling.

I have a lot of experiences in listening to stories and giving feedback in a constructive way. This was something the group in Washington could benefit from. And the Scandinavian group loved the knowledge from the group of people from Washington.

Q: If you could identify a person or organization who desperately needs to tell a better story, who or what would it be?

A: EU — The European Union — the project is very interesting, but it is only for men in black suits and red ties. No ordinary people cares about it.

Q. What future trends or directions do you foresee for story/storytelling/narrative? What’s next for the discipline?

A: Interplay is a key word here. So the basic of the oral storytelling, interplay, can be transferred into various aspects of life.

Q: If you could share just one piece of advice or wisdom about story/storytelling/narrative with readers, what would it be?

A: Don´t make such a fuss about it — go up there and tell them your story.

After I posted about the performance, Two Men Talking, and the affiliated firm, Narrativ, Jerome Deroy of Narrativ was kind enough to share these links with me:

Performers/creators of Two Men Talking in an interview with WBAI Radio:

1 — Origins of Story     2 — Listening     3 — Workshops    

4 — Workshops Cont’d     5 – Conclusion

I’m delighted to present the fourth installment in this series of interviews with some of the gurus of both performance and applied storytelling. This interview is with “Cousin” Jon Hansen (actually no relation as far as I know). I “met” Jon through this blog. He uses storytelling in the procurement sector. Read more about him in the links below his photo.

Learn more about Jon in his LinkedIn Profile and his blog, Procurement Insights.

Q&A with Jon Hansen:

Q: What future trends or directions do you foresee for story/storytelling/narrative? What’s next for the discipline? What future aspirations do you personally have for your own story work? What would you like to do in the story world that you haven’t yet done?

A: As the world becomes more complex and disparate through globalization and social networking (in the latter, a great deal of my ongoing research and development resources have involved the evolution of the Web 4.0 platform), the importance of effective storytelling will play a critical role in establishing points of commonality that will lead to a greater mutual or “collective” understanding.

This is due in large part to an effective storyteller’s ability to provide a real-world point of reference that is universally recognized for its practical application. And it does not matter whether or not the story is presented within the illustrated or written framework of an Aesop’s fable, or a recounting of an actual event that the storyteller has himself (or herself) experienced, or witnessed first hand. The essential element is that it translates the complex into the everyday thereby widening the funnel of impact.

In the end, effective storytelling is both the filter and translator through which a greater understanding of the complexities that define our world today can reach out to the broadest number of people. It is therefore the lynchpin of effective communication.

Q: If you could share just 1 piece of advice or wisdom about story/storytelling/narrative with readers, what would it be?

A: The illustrative nature of storytelling must be both entertaining and insightful.

Q: The storytelling movement seems to be growing explosively. Why now? What is it about this moment in human history and culture that makes storytelling so resonant with so many people right now?

A: I do not believe that it is so much growing, but is rather in the early stages of a renaissance based on the need for people to connect at multiple levels of understanding.

Social networks certainly provide the “architecture” for communication on a global basis, however content and more specifically meaningful content has not yet caught up with the technology.

I often refer to Neil Postman’s book Amusing Ourselves to Death and in particular his reference to the fear Aldous Huxley expressed in his book Brave New World. The fear of course being that “truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance.”

Given the unfathomable sea of information afforded us through the Internet, storytelling is an invaluable resource as it provides the means for delivering substance and meaning in a form that can be readily grasped by the masses.

It reminds those of us who are willing to admit our true age of a time when the radio with tubes crackling and the dusty light from the station selection window took us on a journey of unlimited potential.

For today’s younger set, it provides that valuable link spans generational experience, which is especially important since recent studies have found that it is not uncommon for 4 different generations of workers to be employed within the same organization.

No, I do not really think of storytelling’s appearance on our collective radar screens as being a product of growth, so much as it is a result of rediscovering our elemental roots of communicating.

Q: Most people would probably be surprised that procurement is an area to which storytelling can be applied. Can you discuss how you use storytelling in your work?

A: As you will probably recall from our previous e-mail exchanges, I have used storytelling as a means of illustrating critical points associated with the evolution of supply chain practice.

In some instances these can involve the recounting of an actual event (a Dragnet type of story that is true, with only the names being changed to protect the innocent). Here is a link to one such example.

The other relates to humorous anecdotes such as my response to a question dealing with the complexity associated with quantifying employee confidence in new supply chain programs. Here is the question, as well as my corresponding answer:

Is confidence difficult to quantify due to its complex, intangible and long-term oriented nature?

In his reminiscences about his college days, Bill Cosby talked about his girlfriend who happened to be a philosophy major. As a student of “athletics” nee sports, scholarship, he summed up the academic differences between the two courses when he referred to the philosophically motivated question “why is there air?”

His girlfriend’s class spent countless hours and days attempting to “quantify” the meaning of air. Bill’s athletically oriented class however answered the question within a matter of seconds with the simple observation that air exists to “fill basketballs, footballs, volleyballs etc.”

Oversimplified, most definitely. True, without question.

I went on to say that confidence is reflected in usage.

Q: You conduct a workshop on social networking and the purchasing professional. What story elements do you advocate that purchasing pros integrate into social networking?

A: As I mentioned in my answer to the question regarding growth in storytelling, merely having the infrastructure in place to effect real-time communication on a global basis isn’t enough.

One interesting statistic from a study that illustrates this point found that 80 percent of all information that appears as a result of a Google search is largely irrelevant. 80 percent is a significant amount of non-useful misinformation!

The strength of storytelling is that it requires an understanding that is based on actual life experience combined with a clear vision of the targeted audiences areas of actual interest. This can only be achieved through building relationships that are predicated on mutual interest rather than tied to the “number of connections” one can establish in the shortest period of time.

To be effective, social networking has to start to ask the question is establishing the link worthwhile versus the proclamation “I have 2 million names in my personal network.”

(NOTE: Web 4.0 is based upon the former by employing a strand commonality architecture that effectively links seemingly disparate interests into a collective beneficial outcome for all stakeholders. Ironically, and on a more basic level, storytelling does the same thing in terms of the potential for universal appeal that transcends diverse sectors and even cultures.)